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  1. #1

    Your views on "Foreign Talent"

    Let's have a serious discussion regarding "foreign talent" in schools, sports and the economy.

    The general feeling I get reading responses to news articles and general posts is one of immense disapproval and negativity.

    For the purposes of this discussion let's ignore blue collar labourers since these folks occupy a niche industry that most Singaporeans (I am generalizing here) do not consider worthy work. If enough folks feel this group should be included let me know.

    The most common gripe today about FTs is that they directly compete with Citizens for very limited resources and jobs here in Singapore, and that no clear distinction appears to exist between "them" and "us".

    Please give your responses deep consideration. I'd rather not have one liners saying this or that with limited supporting examples or analysis.

    Lastly, please keep things civil. I will excise any improper comments or outbursts with impunity.

    DF

    Durian Dragon Dranyago! See this Dragon Meow!

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  2. #2
    but before I talk about them, lets talk about US (me and you).

    every time we are posted overseas, we ourselves become FT.

    when u are posted to a developing country, usually most of the locals welcome you coz u represent what they want to achieve. Sadly, more than enuff times I have witness singaporeans forcing their culture upon the native staff causing long term internal conflict. However when we visit a developed country, we behave the complete opposite.


    now onto the topic.

    1. they work for a salary not practical for a singaporean.
    2. they are willing to do impossible task/hours.
    3. any time can byebye go home and live like a king/queen. Whereas we die die have to suffer in silence.
    4. they interbreed with the locals.
    5. males no need to do national slavery.

    above are the most common reasons given.

    DF ya wrong to leave out the blue collar workers coz it started there. When we started having a 'foreign worker's class' we started to develop a 'God Complex'. White vs Blue than Local vs Foreign.

  3. #3
    Local Govt don't even appreciate the talent and ideas that local citizens can come out with.

    Frankly, it all begins with the govt...

    Wat the fark can we expect more??? Otherwise these talented people wouldn't even think of migrating to other countries...

    Getting foregin talent into SG is just an excuse to cover SG Govt's failure and their inablity to understand the true meaning of talent, inspiration and new ideas and concepts...

  4. #4
    For me i understand perfectly the need to import foreign workers for niche jobs that Singaporeans refuses to do.

    JOBS
    However, we see that many jobs that Singaporeans NEED in order to support their family are constantly being taken up by foreigners. This is too much. Retired aunties now find it hard to find work, esp as waitress, hawker centre staff, sell drinks etc.

    There is also the issue of employers preferring FT due to their lower pay and better commitment. Because of slavery we cannot commit ourselves to the company 100% percent of the time. National slavery is not within our control and it is unfair that we are viewed as unfavourable potential employees just because we have to serve the nation, providing for the security that makes the company's existence possible and stable in the first place.

    EDUCATION
    We are in the state where we keep giving out free education to capable foreigners. However, I have many friends who were as capable if not more capable, getting places in MIT, LSE, CMU, but not being able to go there because their portfolio is not good enough for scholarship, and their parents could not afford. Does it not make more sense for the government to fund the education of these Singaporeans, who would then be thankful of Singapore for their education, rather than funding FT who just come in Singapore treating Singapore as a stepping stone and then escape. (Just look at how AJC got 2 china students who disappear overnight without warning to US to further their studies) Why fund education for foreigners without bond when our own capable students could not get the education they deserved and needed? One of my friend who got a place in LSE in facts top his class in maths full of china and indian scholars, but he did not have a colourful "wayang" portfolio that so many scholarship providers look for and failed to secure any scholarship. He comes from a single parent family, his younger brother is still in army and sister is in secondary school. Would you agree it is a waste if he could not get into LSE?

    Is it more worthwhile to fund foreigners to study in Singapore without bond, or fund equally if not more capable but needy Singaporeans to further their studies?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by projectile View Post
    Local Govt don't even appreciate the talent and ideas that local citizens can come out with.

    Frankly, it all begins with the govt...

    Wat the fark can we expect more??? Otherwise these talented people wouldn't even think of migrating to other countries...

    Getting foregin talent into SG is just an excuse to cover SG Govt's failure and their inablity to understand the true meaning of talent, inspiration and new ideas and concepts...
    The government doesn't need to appreciate your talent unless you work in the civil sector - the companies you work for need to appreciate your talent. This applies to the 'mainstream' talents, not the arts of course.

  6. #6
    Do you know how retarded SG Govt are to know and accept new ideas...? Not all of them... but most of them...

    Ideas that other countries are trying, concepts that other people are working out to create... There are people in SG with such quality to think miles ahead... too bad, "some people" are retarded, slow or having down syndrome... they only care about their status, money, and how to stay on top...

    I been there... and saw the truth...

    We will never step out of this shadow, not even another century...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sabe View Post
    The government doesn't need to appreciate your talent unless you work in the civil sector - the companies you work for need to appreciate your talent. This applies to the 'mainstream' talents, not the arts of course.
    That the problem... and what have we really achieve?

    Nothing lor.... always post big ads and stuff boasting about their work and achievement... I contracted to DSTA before... alot of retards and morons there... those smart ones who I know... I pity them, due to their bonds, they can't leave...

  8. #8
    I hope to get out of this country...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by projectile View Post
    I hope to get out of this country...
    just leave behind the speakers in yr sig for me

  10. #10
    My view on FT is how Singapore employs and tap FT. For instance our defense force. We can form but can't train on our own so IDF came. We benefit and thank them. Then IR how many singaporeans work in casino before? So naturally we need FT. But after IR operations had matured and stable what is the plan for singaporeans? In sports we got medals through FT coaches. We thanks them. How about FT in education? Does it mean we would get Nobel prize?

    Then how about in private sectors like banking, IT etc. What do we want to achieve by employing FT? How do we decide a FT is the right candidate? Say a FT who had experience and contact in global market was employ as a CEO in a company. He brings the company to the global platform. Thus the company had the cutting edge over others. How would that benefits singaporeans?

    My point is purpose and direction. If the FT which companies are employing simply because they are not singaporean, accept lower pay, holding a position of no authority then they are just the better breed of FW. If the government can outline what types of position in a company open to FT is better. Otherwise implement exchange programs.

  11. #11
    First and foremost, I think there is a need to differentiate foreign talents and foreign workers. Many people tend to confuse them.

    For FW, I think the companies had made it clear. They will employ locals but how many locals will want to work in industries like construction or cleaning or even healthcare? The problem is that they cannot get the locals to work so they have to employ FWs and the result: Singaporeans complaining that they are stealing the jobs from us.

    Many people get irritated with FTs when they fight for university places with the locals because it is already so competitive among the locals and WTF you get these FTs to come? To some extent I agree with this. The universities actually have about 2000 places reserved for FTs which means there are 2000 locals who want to get into the university and is unable to get in. The problem with Singapore's education system is that everyone be it local or FT you are treated equally in the schools. Just that if you are a FT you pay more thus, FTs tend to be more motivated in studying because locals for some of us, we go to school because we have no choice. It is the same when we go overseas to study. When overseas, we know the importance of education and the purpose of why we are there. Because if you have no interest in studying you won't bother to go overseas to study in the first place.

    In Singapore, we seem to treat FTs as first class citizens sometimes they are wanted by companies more as compared to locals. Thus locals become 2nd class citizens especially when more and more FTs are coming into Singapore with the numbers still growing.

    It is not surprising because if you think what talents do Singaporeans have that the FTs don't? Because they are FTs with talents, that is why they are in higher demand than locals. You can just take a look at the recent Adidas Sundown Marathon. In 3 out of 5 categories, the first place was a foreign runner. And the 2nd place were Singaporeans but they didn't come in close to the 1st person.

  12. #12
    Okay, another FT topic.

    Firstly I have to agree with Sluglives' post above, why discriminate?
    If you need to work in a foreign country, and a comparatively high number of Sporeans do, would you liked to be differentiated too?


    I've said this so many times but we need foreigners here.
    Lets not talk about the construction, frontline sales jobs etc- we all know foreigners fill up a large number of these places because Singaporeans wont.

    Now on to foreign investment and exports. This is something we need. We are dependent on this- selling to 4.5 million people is not enough to stimulate our economy, 60-65% of our economy is made up of foreign investment/exports because its a matter of 4.5 million peoples' spending power vs billions around the world to simplify it.


    Anyone who cannot understand this does not understand basic economics and should keep their mouths shut. Sorry to be blunt, but its annoying how some people dont understand and cant be bothered to learnt the technicalities of the economy but want to have a say.

    For foreign investment to come in, you need an open economy, you cannot have protectionism, taxes against foreign investors etc as this will drive them away. Basic Economics- Increase in protectionism = Fall in foreign investment. Direct relation.

    Large countries like the US and Canada on the other hand are not so relient on foreign investment. There domestic consumption make up close to 60% of the economy. Why cant we do that? Because we dont have 100 million Singaporeans to sell to.


    Lets look at Economics here.
    Basic Macroeconomics- what makes a country's Net National Product?

    NNP= Consumption (domestic) + Investment + Government Spending + Exports - Imports

    - Consumption (C) refers to what we spend, on everything in Singapore
    - Investment (I) here refers to purchase of capital goods
    - Government spending (G) refers to the amount of money the government spends. Now we know the govt is increasing this to boost the economy for this recession
    - Exports (X) refers to Singaporean goods sold abroad or to foreigners
    - Imports (M) refers to goods we buy from abroad

    so in short, the function is:
    NNP= C + I + G + (X -M)

    So the X in our function above makes up 60-65% of our economy, because we can sell to the rest of the world which is far bigger than Sg.

    We cannot make the C as big as X because we are only 4.5m strong.

    fyi, although we import a lot of things as well, our imports are far lower than exports so it doesnt negatively impact our economy much.


    So there, being the export driven economy we are, in order for us to be attractive to foerign investors and for our products and services to be attractive, we need to compete.

    Singapore cannot impose the kind of protectionism Canada has because they dont need to worry about Exports to drive their Economy, their massive population can.


    As shown above Economically, there's no choice. You have to compete with the world.

    In schools a lot of the foreign students that come in are the better ones in their countries- you have to compete with them to. If we cannot sustain our global competitiveness, it would be the end of our island state. So if you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!

    On a sociocultural aspect, I believe having a unified Singaporean identity is very important. Since we have a lot of foreigners here (which is good), we must be clear of our identitity and assimilate them into it to some extent. When I'm asked what my race is, I say Singaporean

  13. #13
    education wise we are already very lucky to have a berry berry berry 'socialist' education system.

    in most not so socialist systems, the uni is forced to accept foreign students to get $$$$. Most unis run heavily on donations from corps and a fraction on alumni (but it is thru the alumni that gets the corps hooked). Most government fundings are usually only enuff to cover the basic building maintance.

    The more prestigious your school is, the less you have to beg and vice versa.

    I'm alrite with young foreigners comming over to study. When they start young they tend to integrate very well. However the older they get, it does become very difficult to change their traits and habits.

    job wise, well that is a manpower problem.
    Everybody knows we are going -ve population wise.
    Our sperm cannot make it and we also want to have a nice standard of living. How can u expand anything when u have nobody to work with.

    Oh and have you guys considered the legions of MAIDS in singapore. Good god, if they were ever to unionized and rally. They could easily overrun the entire country.

    this is the kind of society most of us are subscribing to everytime u hoot the latest hardware from SLS.

    You want to change it, easy.

    'Stop hooting and start boinking'

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by concept|infinit View Post
    Basic Macroeconomics- what makes a country's Net National Product?

    NNP= Consumption (domestic) + Investment + Government Spending + Exports - Imports

    - Consumption (C) refers to what we spend, on everything in Singapore
    - Investment (I) here refers to purchase of capital goods
    - Government spending (G) refers to the amount of money the government spends. Now we know the govt is increasing this to boost the economy for this recession
    - Exports (X) refers to Singaporean goods sold abroad or to foreigners
    - Imports (M) refers to goods we buy from abroad

    so in short, the function is:
    NNP= C + I + G + (X -M)

    So the X in our function above makes up 60-65% of our economy, because we can sell to the rest of the world which is far bigger than Sg.

    We cannot make the C as big as X because we are only 4.5m strong.

    fyi, although we import a lot of things as well, our imports are far lower than exports so it doesnt negatively impact our economy much.


    So there, being the export driven economy we are, in order for us to be attractive to foerign investors and for our products and services to be attractive, we need to compete.
    Hi. I got no formal education in economics so I fall in that "should keep their mouths shut" But I hope to know these.

    1. What qualities of FT that Singapore need to increase X in this equation?

    2. What is needed of us to make Singapore attractive to foreign investors despite we are only 4.5m strong so we could increase M?

    3. What FT have in them to make our products and services attractive so we could increase X steadily?

    4. Will setting criteria/set quota, screening etc on FT before working in Singapore deem as protectionism?


    FT that comes to Singapore are not like Shiekh or something. So they can't increase C much.

    Thanks

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWicked View Post
    just leave behind the speakers in yr sig for me
    Cannot, that one will follow me

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